As the public only has media reports, stage-managed press conferences, speculation, conspiracy theory and chat-room rumour to go on, I'd be interested to know why people are so convinced one way or the other, and what evidence or logical arguments they can present to support their opinion that the McCanns are either "innocent victims" or "guilty cover-up merchants" - the most lucid and rational argument will win Best Answer. That's so-called 'pro' and 'anti' - it's the only designation I could think of to describe the polarised extremes of public thinking - it wasn't intended as any kind of judgemental label. Like I said, Best Answer will go to the best argument, which may not necessarily have to fit with my own worldview.
Remember, folks, 'O' is for 'objective' and 'open-minded'. Enjoying the feedback, lots of excellent observations. nobody can be sure, most of the speculation is just a pastime for people. that all. The correct thing to say is "I don't know"...But that is boring I guess
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If they were guilty, they would have to have been capable 鈥?throughout their appeals and the months-long search for their daughter 鈥?of a level of callous chutzpah unequalled in the history of crime Nobody can know yet and it irritates me that people are so keen to criticise Gerry and Kate already.. Nothing has been proven yet.
The only evidence I know of is:
1) 'They have always looked suspicious'
2) 'It is often those closest to the child who causes their death'
3) Some blood was found in a car which the McCanns rented 25 days after Madeleine went missing which after half the tests had been done, could have been Madeleines... I suppose (although I don't know much about blood) it could also have been her sisters?
4) They have now left Portugal - they were planning on leaving before all this came out and so far as I know, they haven't had their movements restricted. I wouldn't exactly call this running away. They were being criticised before for staying so long!
None of this is exactly concrete evidence in my mind and whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
People are just looking for a scapegoat and in a way Kate and Gerry have brought that upon themselves. Whether they are guilty or not, they have courted the media all along and I can completely understand why (they wanted to keep attention on their daughter) and it's in the nature of the media to turn on people.
People quickly caught onto the idea of accusing the parents because they were angry that the parents had left Madeleine and her siblings alone. They, along with most other people will agree that this was irresponsible, but not exactly murder!
People have also said that they looked too calm, and not upset enough at the prospect of their daughter having been killed... I have never thought they looked calm... I thought they both, especially Kate looked completely traumatised at the beginning and slowly turned this pain into determination to find their daughter.
Whatever happened to Madeleine, I just hope that we find out soon so that the poor girl can be put to rest... Everyone seems to have forgotten along the way that whatever her parents are doing, she didn't deserve whatever happened to her, and she is still owed the truth.... I'm more interested in the neglect side of the case and what will happen in the UK , But it is intriging how things are taking a very strange turn from what was a very strange case from the outset , If they hadn't have chose food and drink before their kids that night then none of this would have happened , But maybe it had to happen to cover some terrible accident that had already occured .....HHHmmmmm lets wait and see
EDIT - I criticise them for leaving the kids on their own , They created the situation not me nor you or anyone else , It was them and only them , I can't understand why people can't also see that
EDIT 2 - What happened to her was the FAULT of her parents whether they had a part in it or not . because other than leaving the children... which even gerry and kate both realise and admit was wrong... there is no.. REPEAT NO evidence of foul play on their part/s.. They don't. While I too find it hard to believe that they can be so stoic, I do not know how they could hide a body with the world's media on them. I think people are angry they left their children to go out that night though. I am afraid with parent -hood your freedom is given up. Any way, what ever happened it is sad for the Mc Canns if they are innocent. The nightmare continues as British Social Services are now going to investigate if they are able to look after their twins safely. If they are guilty it is sad for humanity, as we were taken in by a story of sadness, and I do not know if we will be able to trust again. It is just human nature at work. Some people cant believe someone could hurt their own children. Others believe that the parents are the guilty ones. Plus I think a great many on this issue just like to argue and get things stirred up. Human nature at work again. The fact of the matter is they can't. x In my oppinion I am not an anti or pro mccann, i just disagree with the way the anti's say really spitefull things without any proof, they keep calling me a pro mccann because i like to judge with facts not hearsay and right now i believe they did not kill their daughter because there is no evidence and it would have had to be a real elite job of disposing that body with the media hounding you for the best of criminals let alone 2 brits who had never been there before I'm not saying they're guilty or innocent, I am saying at this stage there is not evidence to boldly claim they're guilty so therefore they are innocent until proven guilty. But not a lot of people understand that concept No one can be absolutely certain about anything really. It's purely opinions based on what is seen and heard. The fact that they left the kids alone to go out with their friends and then saying that is was quite normal, never admitting that if something happened to Maddie was a consequence of their irresponsibility put many people against them.
Their lack of emotion is somehow shocking, too. We don't know the whole true. So let the police do their job. No one can be certain of the McCanns culpability with regards to the assumed death of their daughter. I am convinced, however, that their actions in leaving three toddlers alone in a hotel room every night of their holiday proves them guilty of neglect.
I have my own theories about what happened to Madeleine, as most of us here do, but I will not throw unsubstantiated accusations around willy-nilly. Aside form the fact that anyone is innocent until proven guilty, doing so would simply play right into the hands of those who enjoy reporting Q&A's and those who drone on and on about "Anti's" behaving in a spiteful way.
I will, however, discuss hypothetical situations, and put my arguments across in the most logical, rational way I can.
One of the problems, as I see it, is that there is a certain percent of the people on here who refuse to even entertain the possibility that Madeleine's parents MAY have had something to do with her death and the subsequent cover-up. This is close-minded in the extreme, and ignores the statistics that show one is more likely to be hurt or killed by friends or relations.
That's what winds me up, the "ostriches" who will not accept that sometimes Parents kill their children. It's not a nice thought, I agree, but it is a possibility and should continue to be considered so. There is as much evidence to support the filicide theory as there is to support the abduction theory....precisely none. There is also no evidence to suggest that the Portuguese Police would be stupid enough to try and frame a couple who are being watched by the worlds media.
All we can do is speculate, and I believe it is important to continue to do so. The only way to get to the truth is by asking questions, and if there's anyone who deserves the truth, and the justice that the truth will bring....then that person is Madeleine. God bless her.
I hope that has been lucid and rational enough for you. I can honestly say I am utterly confused about the whole thing. There doesn't seem to be any concrete evidence that they are guilty of anything (otherwise they would have been charged and not allowed to leave) in fact the evidence seems very wishy washy. On the other hand there are so many unanswered questions, you could be led to believe that they DID have something to do with whatever happened on May 3rd. No-one knows what happened to Madeline that night apart from the person/persons that took her/killed her.
I will reserve my judgement until the truth emerges, hopefully we will get that soon. I am officially on the fence with this one. I've been watching events as has the whole country for the last few days and I have always felt uncomfortable with the McCanns, mainly because if my child was missing, there is no way I would be able to leave the room or at least a telephone never mind the country as they did in the early days to increase their profile.
However, the reason I'm doubting myself now is because of the publicity that they initiated I find it hard to believe that they could possibly have moved a body after 25 days! Am I being naive?
Lets be honest here, I don't particularly like the McCanns but that doesn't make them murderers and as at this moment in time they are innocent until proven guilty it must be a bloody horrible situation for them to be in should they be innocent.
I just feel that there are a few missing "links" between the stories, but that could be because in this country we'd have had a lot more information from the police than we have received from the Portuguese police.
Plus one of their friends at the meal that night went to look in on the McCann children about 9.30 wouldn't he have noticed if Maddie was missing? Surely not all of the friends would be a willing party to a cover up?
However, if I'd have also seen a man carrying a child and was worried about it, I'd have mentioned it as soon as I sat down at the table but one of their friends waited a few days (unless, of course, I'm wrong).
Mmm food for thought.
Unfortunately, I feel really awful, but I'm not holding out any hope of finding Madeleine alive, perhaps I'm pessimistic because of past missing children that have been found murdered in England and I hope to goodness I'm wrong.
Lets hope this case is solved sooner rather than later and either we can lay her to rest or she is returned to her parents and all of us who've shown any doubt have egg on our faces, which, in this case for the first time in my life I hope I have. No-one can answer one way or the other. Anyone who does is just speculating.
That is for the courts to decide whether they are guilty or innocent.
However I have to agree with toitmoi's perspective and I stand by it until proved otherwise.
I am however annoyed at your label of Pro and Anti as I always have been. How can you label people. It is discriminating and derogatory of you to do so. We all have minds of our own and if some have the same views as other does not give you the right to label them. Firstly,may I say - what a very sane question.
The answer is simple.
I do not often watch the news on TV. I rarely read a paper. I read some of the spouting on here. I listen to the radio.
Any parent with an ounce of common sense knows that it is not possible to keep your eye on your child 24/7. I was once lost at the beach when on holiday from London. I lost one of my children in the city when shopping. (incidentally both of us were found safe and sound)
I know that the case of the McCanns is a little different, because they went out to dinner at a restaurant across the road. My mother used to go to work and leave us whilst my Dad was on his way home from work - - where would she have stood (apart from in the dock) if he didn't get home and/or one of us went missing/had an accident?
The important thing here is that the little girl is missing. She has not been pronounced presumed dead. No-one has been arrested and/or charged with harming or abducting her. Neither is anyone seen to be actively still looking for her.
The inquisition lot are out though. They have tried the parents, found them guilty, and sentenced them to a lifetime of hatred by them. ( If there was still a death sentence in this country I reckon they would have mobbed and rioted until it happened).
Questions remain:
Are the siblings coping Ok without their big sister?
What effect is all this negativity having on them?
Have the parents not got enough to cope with guilt wise?
Should we not leave it to the authorities?
Isn't that why we pay them to do the job?
Can anyone (me included) say, hand on heart, that they have NEVER put a foot wrong when dealing with children in strange situations and/or places?
For the want of a better way to put it - - "let he who is without sin ......".
Think on. We can't be sure, but we are living in a very opinionated world! How can gerry mccannsay that the last TIME he saw maddiline she was cheerfull and happy, but hey wasn't she in bed asleep when he checked on her !!!! Thousands upon thousands of kids go missing each year. Even if i heard that she was found alive and well, I cant see my life get any better. in all honesty, i haven't got a clue How can anyone be accused of a crime without any evidence to that effect?
The so-called pro McCanns are merely pointing out that there is no evidence that Kate and Gerry had anything to do with Maddie's disappearance.
If there were such evidence does anyone truly believe there would be anyone continuing to support them.
bluebadger:
Nice to see there are real fallible human beings still around. I am studying British Sign Language and a big part of it is body language. the McCanns body language has not been right since the 3rd of May. Each individual, whether pro or anti, looks at the suspects on television. The face they see and the actions that face takes will persuade unequivocally one way or the other.
It may be that the face of the suspect they see, is similar to a face they have seen in a previous case, or maybe has the same type of facial expression as another case or perhaps just doesn't have what that person believes, is an attractive face.
It may be that the actions or words of the suspect, don't follow the perceived norm of what that person expects and as such, the suspect must be guilty.
How many times have we heard, "First time I saw them I knew they were guilty"
Well why!, after their first few minutes on television, we know little or nothing about them, we may suspect or we may question, but how can such a short appearance of time lead to an unquestionable assumption that they are guilty.
Could be because those who vehemently believe one way or the other have something lacking in their lives, they then see anyone who commits a crime or doesn't fit in with their views of reasonable behaviour as the sole cause for all of their woe's.
It is easier to deflect attention from your own failings than it is to repair them People are, unfortunately, blinded by the media and led by other people. Portugese papers went a bit crazy and have suggested all kinds of things - ie a syringe being found in their apartment, Gerry admitting to sedating his children etc etc - but sensible people know that these accusations are completely empty as there is no proof to back them up. Unfortunately there are the rubber-neckers amoungst us (you know, the ones who thrive on seeing car crashes etc) who pick out bits from articles and believe only the most hyped up parts. Its so frustrating to come in contact with those that are so convinced of the McCanns guilt when there genuinely is no solid proof. The only thing that we can all prove is that they were bloody foolish to leave their kids that night. They certainly do not, however, deserve all that the media is writing about them, as along with that comes the unintelligent followers that shout abuse and jeer at them. There simply is no proof and I seriously believe that people are innocent until proven otherwise. One look at Kates face really says it all. The poor woman is pale, gaunt and tired. she needs her daughter back. Nobody is actually certain, and the Police aren't 'absolutely certain' either.
I think Kate & Gerry have something to do with their daughter's disappearence because of the evidence Piled up against Them. e.g scent of_corpse on Kate's clothes, rumpled bible pagess, blood in car 3 wks after Maddie went missing initlally.. etc etc
it all is very, very suspicious i have to say,.. How can you be absolutely certain that you have just asked this question? To be honest most Anti's (beyond the ranters) have only said that they are guilty of child neglect and that they are not being honest about the circumstances of Madeleines 'disapearance'. There is also concern that the Fund has not been used to attempt to find Madeleine and is thus coillected under false pretences.
Most Pro's (beyond the ranters) skip over the child neglect (or make excuses for it) and believe there was an abduction and that the McCanns are being treated unfaily by the media, and more recently by the Portuguese police.
No one Pro or Anti (beyond the ranters) has came out and declared they are definately innocent or definately guilty regarding Madeleine (disapearance, abduction, death) becuase they dont have a body yet alive or dead. I have no arguement either way. I know I have had a really uneasy feeling ever since Madeleine went missing, to me certain things don't seem to add up (the blood stains for example) but who am I (or any of us on here) to say whether they are guilty or not.
All I know is that with them both being doctors and they were looking in on a case similar to this (like we have been with them) they would have their own opinions. I know that there are some doctors out there who have helped bring parents to justice after doing something as terrrible as murdering their own child. If they were looking at this on the news maybe alarm bells would be ringing out to them like they do to most people on here.
I'm not saying the McCanns have done it but I have had my doubts.
All I do know is that a little girl is still missing out there, we don't know whether she is alive or dead for sure. Maybe our thoughts should be with her right now because she could be living a life of hell right or she could be covered up somewhere not apart of this world anymore.
Our focus should be on finding her one way or another, not get caught up in the tiny little details that are surrounding her disappearance.
I hope she is found as soon as possible, so she can live her life again or be put to rest.
Only when people know 100% what happened should they be free to judge the people involved.
Either way, the people out there who have hounded the McCanns saying they are guilty will have to swallow their words and if they are big enough people maybe there will be a few sorrys on here, sorry we judged etc or the people who have argued saying they are innocent will have to swallow what they have said and accept that the parents were responsible.
The only people who can really judge are the parents themselves.....you judge yourself alot harder than what others will judge you. what some of the above said. Lets deal with nothing but facts.1..they sedated the three children.2..they deserted the three children.3...Maddies cuddly toy was washed by the mother,who had found out she was a suspect.4...Maddies blood ,was found in the hire car.5...As soon as the parents were officially accused ,by the investigating Police officers,they bolted for home.Now l am not a genius,but if you put it all together,as the Portuguese Police have,you have NO option to state that they killed the little girl,probably by accident with the medication they gave her.Hid her little body.hired the car. and then moved the body from its original hiding place ,to a safer hiding place. | 