Warning to people who don鈥檛 like long questions!
It appears to me the average or should I say liberal Christian doesn鈥檛 fully understand the term. The media has taken hold of the term and ran with it. I wanted to ask this question after reading through the answers of one of my contacts and I saw one Christian making the false claim that Christian Fundamentalism is 鈥淧seudo-Christianity鈥?and he also equated it with 鈥渢elevangelist鈥?This is far from the truth. At first I was going to go into the history of the term and why it arose, I鈥檒l just say look up the history of German Higher Criticism, the advent of Darwinism, as well as the rise of Dominion Theology also sometimes called Post- Millennialism and the response of Pre-Millennialism.
With that said let鈥檚 look at a few Biblical examples of fundamentalism:
1) Jesus Christ
His entire life was pretty much fundamental since his presence alone CONVICTED people of their sins along with his message. Interesting since Christ is our example, yeah he was God, but I remember my grandparents telling me about a time when the presence of a Pastor or preacher or Christian earned respect because they were REAL MEN OF GOD鈥ell since most anti-fundamentalist claim preaching against sin is against the message of Christ, it鈥檚 hate and 鈥減seudo-Christianity鈥?let鈥檚 hear what Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, said during his time on Earth:
In John 5, Jesus heals a man and then later warns the man about sin:
John 5: 7 The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me. 8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk. 9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
John 5: 14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
In Luke 15 in between the parable of the Lost Sheep and the prodigal Son, Jesus explains the purpose of both parables. Interesting he says repenting from sins is important.
Luke 15: 7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. 8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it? 9 And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost. 10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
And of course a perfect message for today鈥檚 age. Jesus preaches against serving two masters, God and wealth (which equates to the god of this world and the god of self)
Matthew 6: 23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! 24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. 25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
After his baptism and temptation in the wilderness, which further proves the fundamental stance of Christ since he QUOTED SCRIPTURE against the Devil showing he believed in the literal power of God鈥檚 Word.
Matthew 4: 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 9: 10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
2) John the Baptist
He lived in the wilderness, ate locust, had wild hair and a long beard and rebuked the so-called wise religious leaders of his time:
Matthew 3: 1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. 5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. 7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
He preached against sin even to the government of his time and unto death:
Matthew 14: 1 At that time Herod the tetrarch heard of the fame of Jesus, 2 And said unto his servants, This is John the Baptist; he is risen from the dead; and therefore mighty works do shew forth themselves in him. 3 For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife. 4 For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her. 5 And when he would have put him to death, he feared the multitude, because they counted him as a prophet. 6 But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod. 7 Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask. 8 And she, being before instructed of her mother, said, Give me here John Baptist's head in a charger. 9 And the king was sorry: nevertheless for the oath's sake, and them which sat with him at meat, he commanded it to be given her. 10 And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison.
Since this is already long I鈥檒l leave it here. Look up Peter, James, James the brother of Jesus, Paul, Stephen, the Apostles, etc. I mean, basically all the characters in the Bible who were of God had a fundamental stance鈥he prophets, the minor prophets of the Old Testament were fundamental.
So for the liberal Christian who slanders and speaks against the stance of Fundamental Christianity? Have you read and understood your Bible, have you read and understood your history? Why do you associate fundamental Christianity with false apostate Christianity when it is far from it? Why do you associate it with the 鈥渓ip service鈥?of big time televangelist ministers when the fundamental Christians of the Bible were not big time mega-church leaders but they were mostly hated? Why do you slander fundamentalism when it is what is in the Bible? I apologize for the format. I usually triple check, but my kids are sitting next to me right now. I usually make sure everything is spaced out and far more legible. The part of your question dealing with John the Baptist is precisely paralleled in this modern time where "science" is "god" and anyone who says otherwise is vilified unmercifully. John preached a new way that the religious leaders of his time saw as heretical, and it ultimately cost him his head.
With the prevailing attitudes in this day against those branded as "fundamentalist" (as though that's somehow a "bad" thing), is it any wonder to you that what you're seeing more and more of is the message of the book of Timothy absolutely coming to pass when he says about how people will be in the last days?
To all these people in here (namely atheists) who rant and rave against fundamental Christians, and say really foolish things like "My "rational" mind simply will not allow me to believe in a fairy-tale god without any "scientific proof", they simply do not "see" that they are actually helping in bringing about all these things to fruition.
Fundamental Christians will carry the day when other biblical prophecies and decrees begin to happen even more on a much grander and global scale (as they already are), and then we'll see who's laughing when people of all nations-great or small, wealthy or poor- look around themselves and say "It really all is true!!!"
Fundamentally speaking, it will be too late for them at that time, as it should be. They have spent a majority of their time mocking the fundamental Christians of this day, but they will live to see the tragic error of their ways.
It'll just be too late for them is all. 聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽I agree with you that there is nothing wrong with being a fundamentalist. It is the unbelievers which have made it a dirty word and the legalists whom have given it a bad name. For the person above, whom implied that being like Moses, instead of like Jesus, was a bad thing -- you give fundamentalism a bad name, too. Moses did nothing wrong. All he did was deliver God's Law to the people. For that, we call it the Law of Moses but it is not Moses' Law -- it is God's Law. God spoke the entire Law Himself.
Deut. 5:31 "But as for thee, stand thou here by me, and I will speak unto thee all the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which thou shalt teach them, that they may do them in the land which I give them to possess it."
聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽All Moses did was write down what he was told and teach people that. There is nothing wrong with that. Those whom discount the Law and uphold the Love of Jesus are actually discounting Jesus. Jesus, in His pre-incarnate form, spoke the entire Law (not just the Ten Commandments) to Moses for him to write down and teach it. Having a proper balance is correct -- but it must be a balance which includes *all* of God's Law. Why? Because Jesus said nothing will pass from the law [Torah] until all of heaven and earth passes away.
Mat. 5:17,18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. (18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
God bless. I really like what you have stated here. Too many people would rather have their ears tickled. Too many people would rather hear only good things that feel good and easy. What was the message to the Church at Laodicea in Revelation 3?
14...鈥楾hese things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 鈥淚 know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, 鈥業 am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing鈥欌€攁nd do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked鈥?18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
22 鈥淗e who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.鈥?br>
If we are not fundamental believers in God's Word, then we are not true believers at all. I sure don't want to hear Jesus tell me, "Depart from Me you who practice Lawlessness, I never knew you!" Brilliantly stated, Brother Roy!!
Most "average" people don't realize that fundamental Christianity is Christianity without the frills. It is what Christ taught!
Blessings to you!!
Gardenia I don't think that the "average" Christian frowns upon fundamentalists unless by "average" you mean people who are Christians in name only because their parents took them to church and they show up there once in a while.
What Christians do frown upon is an unbalanced presentation of God's truths were some fundamentalists are more like Moses than Jesus.
John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jesus exemplifed the "grace and truth" principle in this passage about the woman caught in adultery.
John 8:10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, "Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?" 11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more." Though some may consider me a "Fundy" w/o a brain, I tend
to be some what hard core about the liberal "Organized Church" who preach a soft gospel, if they preach the gospel
at all.
I do my best to present the Truth of the Gospel of Christ Jesus, if that offends, oh well. I would rather you be offended by the Truth, then suckered into a lie by these false teachers and preachers.
It's time to get out of the Harlot called Babylon (All Organized Religion) and come to the Truth of Christ Jesus, through the Holy Spirit. Let us define what a Christian is.
A Christian is a Christ follower, one who has put their faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, for forgiveness of sins, redemption, sanctification, living a life worthy of the Gospel, one who takes up his/her cross daily and follows Him. One who is 'born again' by the Spirit of God, or another term used is one who is 'saved'. Unless regeneration has taken place, a person is NOT a Christian. There are many counterfeits, those who claim to be 'religious' those who claim to be 'good enough' those who live 'upright, moral lives' but we cannot be saved through our own efforts, for it is by grace we are saved through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast. Because people today do not stand on anything with both feet.
we have some hybrid breed of "Latte" Christianity composed of yellow-bellied pussy-footers who hardly even know what they believe!
"I sink deep in the mire, where ther is no standing!"
"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith, for he is faithful that promised!"~Heb.10:23 thats the way its supose to be near the end..the secular
will control everything... BECAUSE, a lot of these new age modern liberal so called christians do not want to go along with what the Bible says anymore,they believe it is out dated and not for the modern times so they want to say that it isn`t saying what it is really saying because the true word is to hard for them to accept,,,,and fundamentalst stick to the word LITERALY and i am one ,,,,, God is love...why do we try to mold him into what our vision of what a loving and just God would do...since he is righteous and merciful; he has provided forgivness and restoration from every form of wickednes, the most vile sinner will be received the instant he repents. So if god has a righteous moral standard and promises judgement and wrath for those who choose those ways and has provided mercy and grace for those who would repent; how is he unfair or unrighteous when he condemns those who rejected his words?...read the bible from cover to cover, god is loving and merciful but he will judge all iniquity, he is consitant, his standards do not change, it is better for men to align them to gods standards then to suppose god will adapt theirs....His standards are revealed in the bible; fundamentalist are not making up the their own doctrines, these facts of sin repentance go back to genisis through revalation... Good has already beaten Evil, and it is up to each of us to choose who we will follow, We failed once with the First Adam, they followed the serpent, now God has given us another chance through Jesus, let us know, told us, We have a choice, and told us the consequences, now we have it all right in front of us, will we make the same mistake, will you make that same mistake, you still have a choice,
ARe you listening to the serpent still
or Will you listen to God. Basically fundamentalism is very dogmatic about things that don't matter... like the clothes one wears and the music one listens to... fundamentalism majors on the minors.
It's just annoying. Ok first let's get the facts straight. The average Christian doesn't look down upon Fundamentalists. I accept Fundamentalists as fellow believers in Christ and so do most Christians.
To move on. I have actually read "The Fundamentals" have you? I have actually defended many of the essay's included in the collection. For example there is a very good essay in the collection that supports the Virgin Birth that is as scholarly as anything I have read by any Roman Catholic or Orthodox writer.
As for the average Christian being liberal. Let's just say that Christianity existed for about 1700 years before fundamentalism even began to form. That would make fundamentalism the innovator and thus the liberal branch of Theology.
The problem as I see it with Fundamentalism in particular is that it tends to treat the Scriptures as if they were written in a Western mindset instead of an Eastern one, that it tends to apply Scripture as if it was written this century instead of 2,000 years ago. And most importantly much of Fundamentalism ignores what the early church believed Scripture to mean. Let's face it they were around either when much of the N.T. was written, or shortly thereafter in the same culture and with the same influences. I'll give you one important example.
Christian Fundamentalists seem to take everything in The Bible literally yet When Jesus says "Take this all of you and eat it. This is my body, which will be given up for you." the literal translation stops. This is only one example. So it is a pick this, pick that, way of thinking without much logic.
If you want to get into translations of scripture, make sure you are doing it with correct supervision remembering that the only one who is authorized to interpret Sacred Scripture authentically in the first place, is The Catholic Church's Magisterium. Because Fundis sound like idiots when they talk Its actually Christians who have misunderstood the Bible who will try to force other Christians and non-believers to behave like them. Thats what the Bible prophecies tells what will happen!
I'm a Christian myself! Atheist does not scare me at all...they'll NEVER have power. Im more worried about Christians if they try to mix Church and State.
Now, most Christians believe in separation btw Church and State as far as I know! Because average Christians have normal intelligence and common sense.
People who are capable of independent thought find it easy to dismiss ignorant sheeple with no common sense.
You really should check out the Essenes because Jesus was one. Jesus would be appalled at how the buy-bull is used to justify hate and ignorance. I don't frown on them, I disagree. Most are so legalistic they forget we are to LOVE each other. The real problem is that the Bible itself is self-contradictory. Liberals pick the verses they prefer, fundies pick their favorites likewise. The fundies just typically pick the more dangerous, evil or simple minded verses, earning the contempt of their more liberal peers and the rest of society.
They prefer details to the more foundational broad themes (e.g. "thou shalt not lie with mankind as with a woman" to "Love thy neighbor as thyself"), which shows their emphasis is very different from the Lord's own. This perhaps most of all is the reason liberal Christians dislike fundamentalists. |
